Not simply a sign or a symbol

Fr. Barron explains the Catholic doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist:

Comments

[Athina]

This is so beautifully explained. As a Christian but not a Catholic, I must investigate why my church does not believe the same thing. Based on this explanation, my first take is that they must believe that the clergy does not carry the authority of Christ. And I don't know right now what to make of that - a truthful humility or a lack of confidence in the clergy to be Spirit-filled..? But the necessity of this doctrine is clear to me.

Mr. BH, do you know why the church you came from did not follow this doctrine?

[Rick]

Athina,

I appreciate your thoughtful question and especially that you see the beauty in Fr. Barron's explanation.

The church I left in the year 2000, the Episcopal Church, has a wide divergence on what they do and don't believe, and this in just about every doctrine. It's one of the reasons why I left but the fact is that some Episcopalians, who probably now call themselves Anglicans, do believe in the real presence yet I think it's safe to say that most don't.

An excellent piece I found quickly that summarizes things as to Catholic/Epicopa/Anglican belief on this can be found here.

I would love to see you pursue more Catholic doctrine/Catholicism by perhaps watching the series Catholicism that was put together by Fr. Barron and his people or by looking into enrolling in RCIA in a local Catholic parish, hopefully one that is more orthodox/traditional in its outlook that one that might be more liberal, more a dissident Church.

Wish you well. Hope you'll return and hopefully stuff I put up will feed you.

[Athina]

Oh I am here often and greatly enjoy the things that you link to. Thank you.

Thank you for this info you have pointed me to.

I am very intensely - well, as intensely as daily life allows - examining and searching for the truth. This is for my own benefit, of course, but also - as a lay speaker in my church, I am asked to lead the worship service and deliver a sermon a couple of times a year. And this is a weighty task. I can't risk preaching something false. It's a new journey and I do not know where it will lead me, but I rule nothing out.

[Rick]

I'm convinced Athina that one who intensely searches for the truth is one who will be rewarded by finding it.

Keep searching.

Be rewarded.

[Leslie]

Hey Rick,
I've been thinking a lot lately about the power of words to change reality...and the many occasions I need to be more reverent of that with my own words. :)

A couple questions:
1. According to this Catholic doctrine of the Eucharist, does the Holy Spirit indwell people without the Eucharist? Or is this how he indwells?

2. Does Fr Barron have an email list to sign up for or RSS feed? How do you keep such good track of him? :) I was poking around on that website and couldn't find any type of notification mechanism.

[Rick]

Hi Leslie...

Catholicism teaches that the Holy Spirit is imbued to the believer via each of the Sacraments (Baptism, Eucharist, Reconciliation (Confession), Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, and the Anointing of the Sick). So the quick answer is that the Holy Spirit indwells Catholics in more ways than just the Eucharist.

I think a good place to start as to learning more about how the Holy Spirit indwells the Catholic is the Catechism where we find the following:

739 Because the Holy Spirit is the anointing of Christ, it is Christ who, as the head of the Body, pours out the Spirit among his members to nourish, heal, and organize them in their mutual functions, to give them life, send them to bear witness, and associate them to his self-offering to the Father and to his intercession for the whole world. Through the Church's sacraments, Christ communicates his Holy and sanctifying Spirit to the members of his Body. (This will be the topic of Part Two of the Catechism.)

740 These "mighty works of God," offered to believers in the sacraments of the Church, bear their fruit in the new life in Christ, according to the Spirit. (This will be the topic of Part Three.)

741 "The Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes with sighs too deep for words."134 The Holy Spirit, the artisan of God's works, is the master of prayer. (This will be the topic of Part Four.)

For me, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit seems most tangible in the Eucharist but clearly, the Church teaches that we are indwelled via the Sacraments and beyond, to include as often as we pray.

As to Father Barron, I get a lot of his stuff from his Word on Fire blog which lists this link as his RSS Feed. Hope that helps.

[Leslie]

Interesting stuff, Rick. The Lutheran Church mentions the advance of the Holy Spirit via "The Means of Grace" which is both the Word and the Sacraments (only 2 - baptism and communion). I'm assuming they include the Word so that if one is for some reason separated from the church, it is still assumed that person may still be indwelt by the Holy Spirit through the promises in the Word. Although, I've only just thought about this for the first time here at this post. What becomes of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic who is separated from the church at some point? Either by geography or by edict? (PS It is easy for me to send back a bunch of catechism questions but if you don't have time to answer, fully understood.)

[Rick]

What becomes of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic who is separated from the church at some point? Either by geography or by edict?

My understanding is that the Holy Spirit begins His influence, His presence in the believer, at Baptism. We become full of Him at that time though, in essence, we leak and so need refilling. Catholics are filled by the Sacraments primarily and I believe by prayer. What particularly becomes of the Holy Spirit in the lapsed Catholic, great question. I'm of the firm belief that He is still there, still prodding, still poking if you will, at the believer. I hope to find what the Catechism says about it and bring it back here in time. Or, here's a link to it for your edification. There's good stuff there, very good stuff.