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« "We are witnessing here in the U.S.A. the establishment of a state religion" | Main | Openly Communist »

Monday, August 20, 2012

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Tracey Seth

There are lots of ways to love God without subjecting yourself to a long an boring mass hat has no meaning for you. To find it mundane does not mean one does not love God.

So, I think the statement is not only untrue, but unnecessarily judgmental.

The Ranter

I think if you're in mortal sin with no intention of getting out, it is exactly that: long and tiresome.

Rick

Tracey,

I think that if you're a faithful Catholic, if you've come to fully understand the richness and meaning of the Mass and its parts, and especially if you take serious the culmination of the Mass that takes place in the Eucharist, then and only then would you agree with Chesterton.

Kris, in New England

Perhaps it's because I'm a new Catholic or that I was starved for fellowship for 15 years but...

...I never find Mass long. In fact I am always stunned and saddened when it's time to go. The words "Our Celebration Has Ended" are always filled with grief for me.

I don't ever want it to end.

chuck aka xtnyoda

I really get concerned when I find that my sermons seem long and boring to me.
:-)

Tracey Seth

Yeah, sorry, but the mass was created by man, not by God. More power to those who find solace and comfort and celebration in it. I do not.

That does not mean I don't love God.

Rick

Tracey,

With all due respect.

Do you find the Eucharist to be "the source and summit of Christian life"?

If not, why not, given presumably that you're a professing Catholic.

Do you believe that it was Christ Himself who instituted the Eucharist and who commanded us to "do this in memory of me"?

If not, why not?

Do you believe in the precept that missing Mass is a mortal sin (and the reasons for its seriousness)?

If not, why not?

Do you believe in the notion that the Mass is a re-presentation of Christ's crucifixion and a call to the faithful to remember fully and frequently His sacrifice for us all?

If not, why not?

Do you believe in the importance of hearing God speak to us through the Scriptures (not just listening to what He has said but to what He is now saying)?

If not, why not?

Do you believe in communal praise, communal worship, communal prayer?

If not, why not?

These are elements of the Mass that are clearly not self-focused but other focused, particularly God-focused.

Yes, it's true that presentation can make or break what's being communicated but as mature, faithful Christians, it would seem that substance should trump style and the substance of the Mass is full, rich, meaningful, redemptive, restorative, inspirational... and necessary.

I suspect that those who don't find "solace and comfort and celebration" in Mass are those who've not understood or truly looked into the full meaning and richness of the liturgy nor have they fully bought ito or adopted the central tenet that God is there.

Which I think brings us full circle to Mr. Chesterton's biting but truthful statement.

I encourage you Tracey to take the time to better understand what's taking place during Mass and why.

I honestly believe if you were to do so, you'd sing a different song.

Tim Chesterton

Smart man, that Chesterton!

(Well, he has a good name!).

I agree with him, and I'm not even a Roman Catholic!

Tim Chesterton

And here's an Anglican testimony to the same truth:

'All men desire to have God’s favour, and when they know the contrary, that they be in his indignation, and cast out of his favour, what thing can comfort them? How be their minds vexed! What trouble is in their consciences! All God’s creatures seem to be against them, and do make them afraid, as things being ministers of God’s wrath and indignation towards them, and rest or comfort can they find none, neither within them, nor without them. And in this case they do hate as well God, as the devil; God as an unmerciful and extreme judge, and the devil as a most malicious and cruel tormentor.

'And in this sorrowful heaviness, holy scripture teacheth them that our heavenly Father can by no means be pleased with them again, but by the sacrifice and death of his only-begotten Son, whereby God hath made a perpetual amity and peace with us, doth pardon our sins of them that believe in him, maketh them his children, and giveth them to his first-begotten Son Christ, to be incorporate into him, to be saved by him, and to be made heirs of heaven with him. And in the receiving of the holy supper of our Lord, we be put in remembrance of this his death, and of the whole mystery of our redemption. In the which supper is made mention of his testament, and of the aforesaid communion of us with Christ, and of the remission of our sins by his sacrifice upon the cross.

'Wherefore in this sacrament (if it be rightly received with a true faith) we be assured that our sins be forgiven, and the league of peace and the testament of God is confirmed between him and us, so that whosoever by a true faith doth eat Christ’s flesh and drink his blood, hath everlasting life by him. Which thing when we feel in our hearts at the receiving of the Lord’s supper, what thing can be more joyful, more pleasant, or more comfortable to us?'

Archbishop Thomas Cranmer, 1550. 'Cranmer’s Works edt for the Parker Society' Vol I pg 80-81

chuck aka xtnyoda

Tim, thanks for the Cranmer quote. Like cool water on a hot, dry day.

Tim Chesterton

Isn't he great, Chuck? It's taken from a book he published in 1550 with the voluminous title 'A Defence of the True and Catholick Doctrine of the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of our Saviour Christ, with a Confutation of Sundry Errors Concerning the Same, Grounded and Stablished upon God's Holy Word, and Approved by the Consent of the Most Ancient Doctors of the Church'.

They obviously had more time to read book titles in those days!!!

Of course, this was the Reformation era and Cranmer was writing in opposition to Roman Catholic teaching of the day, and I know Rick would find much to disagree with in the book. But it just seemed to me that this particular quote was so much in harmony with the spirit of what Rick was saying, that I just had to throw it in!!!

chuck aka xtnyoda

I'm always amazed at what all those guys could accomplish before the advent of computers and the digital info explosion! I only wonder, what in the world they could have accomplished with our technology?

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