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« Dick Cheney on CIA investigation and document release | Main | We interrupt our regularly scheduled posts »

Tuesday, August 25, 2009

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tim aka The Godless Heathen

While it’s good article and makes some great points there is one area I disagree with.

“It would be racist to expect us simple minded colored folks to learn to speak English correctly. And besides, we don't want our black kids sounding too white. Authentic blacks must sound like the hood, love rap and Kentucky Fried.”

I don’t agree that Liberals, or Conservatives for that matter, can be blamed for these things. Why don’t Black kids speak decent English? White kids learn at home proper, basic English without the help of a Liberal English teacher. While I agree that is should be discouraged and not just accepted at school, which is a different debate all together.

The blame for the examples sited by the author I believe is cultural rather than certain failings of a school system dominated by Liberals. Why dos the Black culture accept and actually seem to encourage such social mores like fatherless families, teen pregnancy, jail, an aversion to authority including the police, dress standards that mimic jail attire and a general lifestyle that is closer to gang life than any resemblance of middle America.

There seems to be a overall general aversion to anything that would be classified as “White” in Black culture, to a serious fault. Some of it I can understand, not relate or agree with but understand. But when eating healthy, getting decent grades, talking proper English, etc, is considered wrong (read White), something is terribly out of step in that society.

The author falls into that old standby trap of blaming others for problems that are owned by the very people actually making them. The exact opposite of the other good points he made otherwise.

Mommynator

tim, I think he was being sarcastic.

tim aka The Godless Heathen

Mommynator,

I know, but the sarcasm only works if the premise behind it is true. I reject the premise.

For example, “Oh, and thanks for encouraging schools to accept black kids speaking Ebonics rather than English.” I realize he isn’t actually thankful for this, and thus the sarcasm involved, but he is in fact blaming the Liberal schools for “black kids speaking Ebonics rather than English”. That’s the part I disagree with.

And he fails again when he says ‘And besides, we don't want our black kids sounding too white.” because I’m afraid that that is actually true. Black kids don’t speak proper English, not because of Liberal school systems, but because of other factors I already covered.

I get the sarcasm just fine, just not the message.

Mommynator

Well, whereas the liberal educational establishment has its nuts in a lockbox and won't demand excellence and living up to one's capacity, they won't confront black kids and tell them that if they want to succeed they need to speak in public in the common language. Kind of like not demanding that spanish-speakers or anyone else speak English in common-community situations.

But what can you expect from a subculture that went from pre-civil rights civilization that included struggling to be educated, own property and enter the mainstream, to being told they were too stupid and weak to do it on their own - the government is here to help - which destroyed families.

Do you really expect the infantile mothers and fathers that resulted to be able to encourage education and civility? The chips on each shoulder could sink the earth.

tim aka The Godless Heathen

While I don’t reject your argument in its entirety, I however do not want to exclude the blame where it rightfully belongs, which is what I thought the author was doing. At some point, certain ethos is the responsibility of individuals and it should be socially accepted behavior and more importantly not self destructing. To blame it entirely on a Liberal school system is faulty logic.

An example being that of the American Indian, a subculture that certainly has endured its share of hardship, from what I’ve experienced speak proper English at least certainly better than Ebonics. Nor do they seem to accept certain behavior which seems to be accepted in the Black culture that I outlined already.

I realize it’s a complicated issue an there are various reasons for many of the problems in the Black community, and don’t please don’t misunderstand me because I don’t pretend to know all the answers, but excuses don’t help but rather they only prolong the dysfunction. (Ironically what made some of the other sarcasm work in the piece).

That’s all I’m trying to say.

I guess we’ll just agree to disagree on this one.

tnxplant

"Why do(e)s the Black culture accept and actually seem to encourage such social mores like fatherless families, teen pregnancy, jail, an aversion to authority including the police, dress standards that mimic jail attire and a general lifestyle that is closer to gang life than any resemblance of middle America."

Actually, it's not just the "black culture" that does this. Single motherhood is held up as a badge of honor in middle American suburbia today regardless of race. I've seen white kids from middle class homes do all of these things in their attempt to be "cool".

tim aka The Godless Heathen

tnxplant,

“Actually, it's not just the "black culture" that does this. Single motherhood is held up as a badge of honor in middle American suburbia today regardless of race. I've seen white kids from middle class homes do all of these things in their attempt to be "cool".”

I didn’t say it was. Care to debate the other examples you conveniently failed to address or do you agree with me?

The percentage of young, single Black mothers versus White/Other is beyond debate.

A “badge of honor” in suburbia? Maybe to some of the girls but I highly doubt it is to their families, like it is in the Black culture.

Also, it can be argued that the White suburban girls are emulating the Hip Hop lifestyle made so fabulously popular due to such crap seen on MTV and the like. Such as the young wann’a be White guys wearing their jeans slung low down their butts, 50 Cents blaring on their souped up Honda Accords with 20” Spinners and their baseball caps brims turned to the side ever so slightly, street creed style…you know what I’m sayin’…keepin’ real, yo.

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