Senator McCain, will you be the fool again?

And condemn this State GOP ad?

H/T Wizbang.

Comments

[salvage]

Ah mindless jingoism, the substitute for actual policy and thought.

I find the whole concept of “being proud to be a (whatever country you were born in) to be so silly. I take pride in the things I do and I didn’t do anything to be Canadian other than to exit my mother’s womb in this particular geography.

I’m grateful to be a Canadian because it’s allowed me to live a free and easy life but I did nothing to bring this nation to that state so what possible pride could I take from it? I didn’t build it, I didn’t fight for it all I do is pay my taxes and that hardly seems noble considering me and my accountant spend a whole lot of time trying to figure out how I can pay less.

But I think the first guy sums it up so nicely, he’s proud to be an American because they helped stop Hitler and the Holocaust but of course that’s not why America entered WWII was it? It was because Japan attacked.

In fact the Holocaust was going on while Brown Shirts held rallies in Madison Square Garden. Jews in the 30’s who fled Europe to North America were sent back from where they came from under a “One is too many” style policy.

So should today’s Americans take shame in that?

[Rick]

Salvage, your telling us that you've done nothing to be proud of is a little like my telling you I breathe...

Nevertheless, thanks once again for confirming our suspicions...

[salvage]

Do you have trouble reading and understanding words? That would explain a whole lot actually...

I've done plenty of things that I'm proud of because I y'know, did them? Being born in Canada wasn't my idea and I had actually little to do with it.

But I guess if being born in a place is the only interesting or noteworthy thing in your life what else can you take pride in?

[Rick]

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. William G. McAdoo

[salvage]

True but your not actually arguing with me.

Your first post made it pretty clear that you didn't read what I said or at least failed to understand it.

[tim]

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

-unknown

“Never wrestle with a pig in mud. You get dirty, and the pig enjoys himself.”

-Unknown

[salvage]

Awesome.

So we are agreed that really being proud of one's country is nothing more than jingoistic rhetoric used to manipulate the very simple into doing the very stupid.

[BroKen]

Salvage, I am reluctant to step in here. It's kind of like sniffing the milk bottle you know has gone bad. But here goes.

You say that pride in your country is "silly" because, it seems, you reserve the word "pride" for yourself alone or things you do. So, if your brother won a gold medal in the Olympics you would not be proud of him. What word would you use to describe the emotion you feel if your brother ever did such a thing? What ever word it is, that is what most of us mean when we say we are "proud" of our country. Your statement that that emotion is merely "jingoistic rhetoric", reveals you as a selfish, cynical and sad individual. (Again, have your read The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis. He deals with your problem quite handily. It might even be a cure, if you'd take it!)

And more to the point, that emotion is what Mrs. Obama meant when she said she was finally proud of America. She already thought Barack was pretty cool. Now she is "proud" because a lot of other people in the US think he is. Of course, our concern is that she couldn't find much else in America to be proud of. Isn't that sad?

Is it so hard to understand?

[salvage]

> So, if your brother won a gold medal in the Olympics you would not be proud of him.
Sure.

>What ever word it is, that is what most of us mean when we say we are "proud" of our country.

Yes but a person and a country are radically different things aren’t they? Proud of my brother for winning is being proud a specific person for doing a specific thing.
See that doesn’t work for something as a large and complex as a country.

Are you proud that America has legal abortion? Are you proud that California is on its way to gay marriage? Are you proud that America has a thriving atheist community?

See you claim to love / be proud of America but you don’t. What you love and take pride in are specific people, places and things. You will rip on the stuff you don’t like while claiming that its everyone else who “hates” America when in fact they’re just like you. Some stuff they like some stuff they don’t.

>Your statement that that emotion is merely "jingoistic rhetoric", reveals you as a selfish, cynical and sad individual.

Nope. It’s reality. People like you use patriotism like a club to beat down anyone criticizing what you believe. If I say I don’t like this and this about America you reply “Why do you hate America?”. See you lot make out like you’re the only ones who are allowed to say anything negative about the US because you love it so gosh darn much.

>The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis. He deals with your problem quite handily. It might even be a cure, if you'd take it!)

Still haven’t read it, I’ve got a list of books to read that gets longer and longer, right now I’m on “John Adams” and I have no problem. See this is a perfect example of what I mean. If someone disagrees with you it’s not because of facts or reality it’s because they have a “problem”.

I assure you that my lack of belief in Bronze Age mythology or mindless nationalism is not a problem.

>Of course, our concern is that she couldn't find much else in America to be proud of. Isn't that sad?

>Is it so hard to understand?

Considering America has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the last seven years, tortures, rejects the basic legal foundation of Western civilization and is being run by war criminals yes. It’s very hard to understand why any of you would be proud of America right now.

[Rick]

Considering America has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the last seven years, tortures, rejects the basic legal foundation of Western civilization and is being run by war criminals yes.

Substantiate or vacate Salvage... this is bilge, pure and unadulterated, birthed in the minds of those who are in fact mindless and then repeated by people like you who are clueless...

Give us some links or some evidence to back this kind of detritus up or simply go back to your playground where this sort of sh*t sells like comic books (and is as substantive).

[salvage]

We've been through this, I provide links and they're either outright ignored or dismissed because the source (like reality) "hates" America or something.

So I will say it plainly and leave the investigating to you.

The invasion of Iraq, the "shock'n'awe" that you cheer-led has killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis whose only crime was to be citizens of a vicious dictator. Furthermore Iraq's infrastructure is crumbling and that'd killing even more. The infant mortality rate for instance continues to climb.

America tortures, from Iraq to all around the world the reports are numerous, substantiated and available to read for those who choose to do so.

You do not because of your mindless jingoism does not allow you to.

And holding prisoners without charge indefinitely is what GitMo is for.