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Sunday, August 27, 2006

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That's the whole problem with humanity.
They wish to pick and choose out of Scripture what they wish to hear.
What they don't agree with is considered hogwash. Either it is all true, or it is all hogwash.
People really should decide whom they will serve.

Interesting, Rick. I haven't read the book myself, but you and Mike at 'Waving or Drowning' are both reading it and reviewing it. It would be interesting to put your two (very different) reviews together on one blog! I think I would agree with your comments on the author's take on John 14:6, but would probably go along with his negative take on 'Christiendom' as a system.

But I have to take issue with the anonymous comment before me. What is meant by 'all true'? The ancient Israelite law that decided whether or not a woman was telling the truth by making her drink dirty water and seeing whether or not she had any ill effects from it? The command to stone to death a son who cursed his father? I think Scripture is a story moving to a destination. Jesus is that destination; he is the Light of the World. In that Light, we can see that not everything that led up to him is as full of light as he is.

My two cents' worth; I look forward to your take on the rest of the book, Rick.

Did the book have a flammability warning due to the high "straw man" content"?

Christianity as a religion didn't exist when Jesus spoke these words

no one actually recorded Jesus' words at the time he spoke them, so we have no proof that they are indeed his words

he said in Aramaic, which means that nothing in the Bible as translated into an other language can be taken literally anyway

It's called faith!! You're made of sterner stuff than I, Rick, since I would have stopped reading at that point (if not sooner). It's not about how we can change the Bible to suit us, it's how we can change to be more like Jesus. That's something that would put Christ back into Christianity.

Rick,

Thanks for taking the time to read the book for yourself and then post your insights. Your openness is obvious and your willingness to follow through is refreshing.

I am not sure where the christian right or left are anymore and the lines between conservative and liberal are not as clear to me either, (a little like Republicans and Democrats) they just don't seem to be addressing the real issues with any vision or success.

I think that is why the reviews of the book are all over the place. I hope I am calling us to look beyond the old ways of categorizing each other and try to find new ways of being the Church in our world. I use the metaphor of "Email" and "Postal" as a way of looking at the church from two different perspectives. I don't believe one is better than the other but I do think the future is opening up communications with "email" church. So I am not trying to be hateful or destroy the "postal" church, I think this side of the church will continue even as the "email" church evolves (maybe we will even find ways of creating NetFlix opportunities).

My critique of where we have been and where we might be now as the church, is only to ask the question are we satisfied with the results OR can we look to the future and see possibilities for Grace beyond our present circumstances. I have been posting something that might help...
________________________________

I liken it to other industries in transition.
*The music industry sold vinyl and plastic but that is not MUSIC.
*The movie industry sold tickets but those are not MOVIES.
*The church industry counts weekly event attendance but that is not the CHURCH.

The record companies told us MUSIC would die if the ALBUM died, but they were wrong MUSIC is strong than ever (from .99 downloads to ring tones). The movie industry told us if the theaters went empty MOVIES would lose their funding, but they were wrong MOVIES are stronger than ever (from netflix to youTube). The institutional church says if we propose CHURCH as "Jesus beyond Christianity" or "Grace Beyond Religion" then the CHURCH will cease, but will it be stronger or weaker...

"A Heretic's Guide To Eternity" is a survey of spirituality today and a proposal for a bold new way of approaching the future as the Church.
__________________________________-

I hope this isn't Hateful but rather seen as Hopeful. It is my love of the Church, Scriptures and Jesus that motivates me.

I know your user-id is Brutally Honest and I respect your insights. I also hope we can ask the hard question "if we stay the course with our present trajectory of the church what will be the affect and effect of our institution 50 years from now on our world?"

I fear that I cannot accept their book as worth the death of a tree. I respect what they are trying to do... but as you and many others have pointed out, their logic is all over the map and their best arguments just aren't very good.

Spencer,

I appreciate your stopping by. Your concluding question is a good one and as one who no longer attends an institutional church, it has a ring of... familiarity... to it...

However... the institutional church has survived for 2,000 years in one form or another and I suspect it'll survive people like me or people like you who have such a problem with it...

But I confess to you that my departure from the church comes with much angst. The possibility that I'm the one in error, that I've given up on something God would rather I not, is distinct.

Yes, there are problems. The right focuses far too much on getting people saved. The left far too much on saving people from themselves. But I suspect there are many churches out there doing the Lord's work, quietly but consistently. I hope that perhaps God will lead me to one of them.

I was pretty sure it was a form email when I saw it in my Inbox after returning from Fort Irwin, CA...now I'm sure.

I was sure it was a form email as well... just wondered how I ended up on the list... after all, I'm not known as HarryTick...

:)

Mike says that, yes, it is a form email, but only sent out to blogs they actually keep tabs on. So, while you aren't a HarryTick, you most certainly try to be Brutally Honest, and so, "Rick" must be good enough!

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