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« No words... | Main | What is needed. What is not. »

Friday, September 02, 2005


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I once saw a car with two bumperstickers:

1. Pro-choice
2. No War in Iraq.

For some reason that seemed like a contradiction.

I know a guy who is opposed to abortion but is in favor of the death penalty.

For some reason that seems like a contradiction.

know a guy who is opposed to abortion but is in favor of the death penalty.

For some reason that seems like a contradiction.

That contradiction melts away in my view when one sees abortion as the intentional killing of a defenseless and innocent human being while the death penalty is the carrying out of justice against a guilty person convicted of the heinous murder of another.

One has to do with defending the innocent. The other has to do with punishing the guilty.

Apples and oranges.

Fr. Tim


The whole "seamless garment of life" argument needs to be re-examined. For something that is supposed seamless it has a lot of holes.


>>Apples and oranges.

Absolutely. It is completely untenable to be pro-choice and anti- death penalty and/or anti-war in general. (A lot of liberals are just opposed to this war in particular, which I agree with.) It is a position that is rooted in utter selfishness at both ends. It's about *me* wanting to be able to have sex without consequences and have freedom without responsibility.

Now, I know many pro-choice believers who are pacifists. I understand how they arrive at that from the word (particularly the Mennonites) and have a ton of respect for them because so many of them would give you the shirt off their back in Jesus' name.

Planned Parenthood is just evil. Given their founder's embrace of eugenics, does it occur to anyone that giving free "morning after" pills to refugees who are nearly 100% black is racist as well as murderous?


Yes, I agree-- apples and oranges. The bumpersticker was interesting and spoke volumes to me.

I still find it a contradiction.


Let me clarify my previous post by making clear my agreement with Rick that it is not illogical for one to be pro-life and pro- death penalty and/or not a pacifist, for the reasons that Rick stated. The difference is this: If a society decides to have a death penalty and a person chooses to murder, hasn't the murderer chosen the death penalty? (I'm ignoring the socio-economic conditions that might provoke people to murder, because, though we should work to alleviate those, at the end of the day, it's a person's choice whether or not to murder.) Babies don't get to make that choice.


Planned Parenthood is just evil.

Amen Zossima.

Thanks Fr. Tim. It is utterly unbelievable.

Jeff H

People do not murder for socioeconomic purposes.


>>People do not murder for socioeconomic purposes.

Well, first of all, it would be quite easy to prove otherwise. The entire Bolshevik Revolution was murder for socioeconomic purposes. Numerous uprisings throughout history have been, too. But I actually didn't say or imply that people do murder for socioeconomic purposes. I said there were socioeconomic reasons that might provoke someone to murder. That's quite different than what you're saying. And I certainly didn't offer any excuses for someone who chooses to do so. Perhaps you should actually take the time to read and understand what people say, Jeff.


"People do not murder for socioeconomic purposes"

Gosh, I would suspect that most murder is somehow related to socioeconomic purposes.

Jeff H

No, Rick, people murder because of a sickness of their soul, not for any other reason.


I just want to complain about certain ignorant Katrina victims in the HBO documentary "Trouble the Water"? Any takers, anybody else come across this retard-umentary?

Satan's little helper

The morning after pill is a contraceptive you f***ing morons.

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