Brutally Agnostic?!

Somewhat recently, I was thinking about how my faith has changed, specifically focusing on a few key items that I no longer hold with the conviction I once did.  Things like the need to have someone pray a sinner's prayer with me, to consistently attend church each Sunday, the thought that all who've not "accepted" Christ are destined for hell or that tithing is an absolute necessity are items that quickly come to mind.

So Dave's post struck a chord:

I rarely publicly call myself an agnostic, perhaps because "agnostic" suggests to most people less conviction than I probably have. In a paradoxical way, the incarnation, death and resurrection of Jesus is a central conviction shaping my approach to life at the same time as it's all up in the air in a haze of uncertainty and ambiguity. I came to a definite turning-point at about this time last year, when I took a kind of existential leap into the unknown and confessed that I didn't know a damn thing any more, but I was unwilling to pretend, and willing to jump, knowing whatever vicissitudes I might pass through on the way down, I was sure to end up safe in the hands of the Universe.

Dave goes on to conclude that he's OK with his agnostic state, a state of mind I'm not quite ready to slip into largely because I'm not quite sure that the term fits me.  Of course, it may just be that I worry what that kind of confession really means and more tangibly, where it might lead.

A commenter at Dave's place speaks words that could slip from my own tongue in describing where I am:

... I'm not sure I'm comfortable, for my part, with being "comfortable" with my unknowing. I can't "chill," although I understand the sentiment - for me the Christian life just is the continual crisis and angst of faith, a continual quest for the good and the true. Just because we'll never get there in life doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile journey.

And I'm not quite convinced (although perhaps I'm in denial) that I'm an agnostic Christian (or a Christian agnostic) but I do know that there are things I thought I knew that I know longer know with any confidence.  Is that agnosticism?

I don't know. 

Call me agnostic on my agnosticism.

UPDATE:  Interesting enough, there's actually a website called www.christianagnostic.com. 

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Comments

[MarcV]

Christian agnostic seems somewhat oxymoronish. I believe that as you move Jesus away from the center of your life, the more agnostic you become with the result of being less Christian. You've been through enough to know that Jesus wants all of you - how much do you hold back?

Against my better judgement I checked out that site you linked, and he seems to be anguished about how Jesus is portrayed:

As I ponder and study the scriptures, a clear picture of this Messiah emerges. It is of one who is always willing to reach out to others, always willing to comfort the afflicted and speak out for the oppressed, always willing to love the unlovable and forgive those who have hurt him. That is the Jesus I meet in the Bible and when I hear him depicted in other ways, when I see him being used to bolster un-Christlike actions, when I encounter his words being used to exclude, to damn, to destroy, I know that this is not the truth.

I continue to see this promulgation of "gentle Jesus" by the liberal/leftist Christians, when there is much more to Him. I suppose everyone has their own interpretation, if they even bother with thinking about it.

[Chuck Kiefer]

Agnosticism with a twist.
The Monk, Thomas Merton was filled with doubt about his spiritual performance in life, even so, he held tenaciously to trust in God. In Merton's words"
MY LORD GOD, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road though I may know nothing about it. Therefore will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone."

[Maugham]

Actually Christian Agnosticism would seem core since we believe so strongly in "faith". His ways are not our way, neither are His thoughts our thoughts. So we are often confused.

As Kierkegaard said "Life can only be understood by looking back, but must be lived forward". In that, we often do not have a clue. Perhaps only trust in the love of God.

[Breezie]

I'm contimplating this myself. Technically, all Agnostic really is is believing that there is no way of knowing if God exists or not. And I do believe in that. If you knew whether He existed or not, then it wouldn't be called "faith". But that doesn't mean that I don't believe just as strongly as a regular Christian. That's why I'm not sure if I should call myself an Agnostic, because most people think that to be Agnostic means you don't believe in God. That's not what I think it means.

[Beatrice]

Now i believe in God,but know that the bible is a story with legendary stories.I therefore have been trying to get an edge.I dont know if am an agnostic or plainly confused.I am an African and before the missionaries came to Kenya our forefathers believed in the Mountains.The west came with the bible as a way of life(Note:Not neccessarily the Gospel truth for the whole world).My point is to inform Christians who are tirelessly trying to criticise Buddhist,Islams,Greek Gods,Hindu etc.The Story of Jesus Christ dorminates because its highly marketed.I know if i start with that Knowledge i can use the bible to teach me morals,virtues and how to avoid Sin.As opposed to thinking the bible is divinely inspired gospel i know for sure its a story,legend with a lesson to learn.B ut i would also put Jesus Christ in the same level as Nelson Mandela only he appeared in more primitive times.Just because we didnt note our heros as Kenyans doesnt mean we didnt have our own "Jesus". So i cant keep Jesus as a son of God. To add onto that religion been an important part of civilisation just like education are ways to tame people.I believe in education for the outcome of intelligence now to me religion and education are neccessary for organised way of life*(NOTE:THEY ARE NOT DIVINELY INSPIRED).

[betty]

I get afraid cos of the dogmas i have held over years and my fear is of the unknown.More often than not i have wished to follow christian principles but the outcome is normally not in favor of continuity but on questions n more questions.I like the Unitarian Universalist approach,quite realistic.That we can only believe from personal experiences on life and thats ur basis on judgement.I have tried to let God work his way in my life according to my prayers to him all i have experienced is thru my efforts???so tell me at what point does this God work?whenever i have put my hopes on miracles i have ended up dissapointed,angry n offcourse lamenting on faith that isnt working.People fuck off faith n know ur strong points,know ur life is a miracle,from there on dont be lazy n expect miracles just work to it.For me am yet to see what life is teachng me.I am not in a particularly huge problems but i had Gods faith n sincerely have noted that if shit hits the fan ur alone at this....thats life.I want my miracle,i have stated my needs n now know more than ever that i cant sit n wait...thats me.I will work for all n will not know who to thank.Favors coming to me r not in concurrence with christian doctrine,i have to break christian rules"maybe am writing out of guilt...then again am jus surviving"How i want to conform but if i do i will feel stupid n just wont.I will follow my strong points,pursue as a human n wit no hope on anyone else.Thats the style,the niche...ooh yeah.ask Trump?

[Liam Kennedy]

On impulse sought and found this site as possibly a site that would help me and confirm for me that there are many seeking the truth about the world and ourselves and have seriously question the notion 'have we been conned' in our christian upbringing.
Without imputing malice on anyone..I have come to the conclusion that Christianity, and religion in general, has hoodwinked and blinkered man's quest for truth...the reality of man's evolution and existence.
I was steeped in Christianity and promoted it...why the 'conversion' ?..not sure...questioning, the illogicality of Christianity, my suspension of 'faith' for reason...but most of all the emphasis, pure and simple of the historical facts of man's almost timeless evolution to his homo sapiens-sapiens state of existence. The growth of 'civilization', the evolution of the notion of powerful external deities/deity as explanations of unknowns and the gradual tailoring of man’s deistic ideas in the light of other notional/tribal theologies in order to make the beliefs in the supernatural more noble and aspirational (who would want to give allegiance to the temperamental and brutal god of the 'Old Testament' ?). What does a rejection of theologies and a human espousing of atheism (the terminology has a horrible resonance to one brought up in the Christian tradition, but translated into the notion of 'not god oriented/ controlled' might be more acceptable) have for humanity ? Foremost is it the truth ? Yes I would admit that it is the more logical & historically factual explanation for me (but not with the spleen and vitriol often found in the writings of Dawkins or Hitchens et alia.) My fears ? It will be unsettling for a lot of good people ; it might weaken for a period the already shaky moral foundations that most societies have been built upon. But..is there a ‘but’ ?....yes there has to be …man has in the past created moral codes of human conduct based solely on human moral principles without seeking a ‘justification’ on ‘instructions’ given by God to an individual for his ‘chosen people’. The scandal for many religions, especially for the three great monotheistic religious adherents is the fact that each has called upon its ‘god’, Allah, Yahweh, the Christian God to kill the creatures, that the same god has created, under a different name. Alright, many may question this scenario as a 'rightful' presentation or having accepted it will have it coloured according to their own religious persuasion; but this 'scenario' has been enacted many times in some form or other with individuals and nations down in the name of their tribal deity.
Bottom line and concluding supposition ....if I was god....all knowing...all powerful....and all loving...I would have made a better job of creation, than what is ; a creation, (where only humans with ‘souls’ are assured) that is destined for an 'eternity' ?
‘Free will’ has been a medieval herring.

And I'm no genius...

[BroKen]

Mr. Kennedy,

You wander around a bit in that post but the best I can figure is, after promoting Christianity, you finally stumbled on the "problem of evil" and couldn't solve it. Well, buddy, join the club. None of us can. Take it to Job, man. He didn't just watch it, he was in it. And he never got the answer he wanted.

I am guessing here, but it seems that the kind of Christianity you were steeped in was very fundamentalist, inflexible and illogical. It is not the only kind, my friend. You do not have to reject Christ when you reject the teaching of some of His followers.

But yeah, if you were God.... Just ask "Bruce Almighty" about it.

[Aaron Lozier]

This is interesting - and yes, I realize I am about 4 years late in coming to this post - though it looks like a comment has been made recently as a year ago. I suppose the question of Christian "agnosticism" is as relevant now as it was 4 years ago.

Wondering if anyone has actually read the book "Christian Agnostic" by Leslie Weatherhead? I am reading it now. He makes some great points, but I feel goes off the deep end from time to time and can be hard to take seriously.

I think it is interesting that the website is called Brutally Honest. I have a blog of my own called "Honest Uncertainty." (honestuncertainty.com.) Right now I am currently describing my transformation from atheist, to "born again" Christian, to now, Christian agnostic. I am not sure how long the story is going to end up, but right now I'm on post 3 and I'm still only 16 years old in the story. (I'm 30 now.) :)}

Anyway, I appreciated this post and everyone's comments. Please feel free to check my site out if anyone is interested. There's an interesting mix of people who read it, as you can probably tell by browsing the comments. :)

[renee]

To those agnostic Christians out there. There is a battle raging against Christianity and it is within the doors and outside the doors. The churches are weary from it and some are losing that battle whether they want to confess it our not, some have lost it and cloak themselves in a name that in reality is meaningless to them. That turning creates agnostic Christians, Christians who feel drained of strength and hope that what they thought was real could be realistic. In Revelation, there are seven letters to seven churches. The church that I strive to be counted in, is this one...

Revelation 3:8 The letter to Philadelphia
"I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name."

There are churches that hold their lights out as a refuge and beacon that have little strength but hold fast to his name. You can find them if you seek them out, God will lead you to them if you ask him to show you the way.

I know many people consider themselves to be in churches that have no walls and doors online, and for some they are in physical locations where that is the only possiblity for them. In God's eyes, that is how he sees the church, with no walls, but knowing we are physical creatures, he gave us an example of physical church families.

While I receive much encouragement from my online Christian brothers and sisters, I also receive much strength from the physical body of believers I meet with. I pray God will grant you that gift,too.