If this doesn't outrage you, then go ahead now and sign up for your official moonbat club membership:
The World Trade Center Memorial Cultural Complex will be an imposing edifice wedged in the place where the Twin Towers once stood. It will serve as the primary "gateway" to the underground area where the names of the lost are chiseled into concrete. The organizers of its principal tenant, the International Freedom Center (IFC), have stated that they intend to take us on "a journey through the history of freedom" -- but do not be fooled into thinking that their idea of freedom is the same as that of those Marines [mentioned earlier in the editorial]. To the IFC's organizers, it is not only history's triumphs that illuminate, but also its failures. The public will have come to see 9/11 but will be given a high-tech, multimedia tutorial about man's inhumanity to man, from Native American genocide to the lynchings and cross-burnings of the Jim Crow South, from the Third Reich's Final Solution to the Soviet gulags and beyond. This is a history all should know and learn, but dispensing it over the ashes of Ground Zero is like creating a Museum of Tolerance over the sunken graves of the USS Arizona.
The public will be confused at first, and then feel hoodwinked and betrayed. Where, they will ask, do we go to see the September 11 Memorial? The World Trade Center Memorial Foundation will have erected a building whose only connection to September 11 is a strained, intellectual one.
A strained, intellectual connection to that centerpiece of modern liberal thought, the cornerstone of leftist mantra, the heart and soul of moonbat myopia... moral relativism.
In their twisted (and sick) minds, 9/11 was something that took place not because the terrorists are evil and their acts heinous but because America is evil and brought this on themselves.
This cannot be allowed to stand. In my view, the hijacking of the WTC Memorial Foundation by radical leftists is as heinous as the WTC hijackings themselves. And something needs to be done.
Matt suggests going to this site as a start.
Smash is angry (and who the hell but moonbats aren't)?
Jarvis rightly calls this "a Why They Hate Us Pavillion".
Gene is quoting George Orwell.
And that's but a few of those I've come across in my 'spherical meandering... I'm hoping to update this post with more in the coming days...
If this issue creates not a blogswarm, then there isn't an issue worthy of one.
I'm confused. Isn't the conservative Christian perspective supposed to be that we are responsible for the things that happen to us? For instance, is it right to complain about the poor on welfare (saying, for instance, that they're poor because they're too lazy or stupid), but then to say that Americans are not at all responsible for others' hatred of us? It seems inconsistent to me. Please explain.
Posted by: Pandu das | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 03:25 PM
Pandu, you're much smarter than to bring a straw man argument into this particular issue...
Find me where decent, compassionate people who think like I do on this issue have called poor on welfare too lazy or too stupid...
Otherwise, address the issue in substantive manner...
You're being childish and immature and I know you can do better...
Perhaps you should apologize... again...
Posted by: Rick | Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 03:45 PM
Ok, so forget the welfare example; it doesn't matter. The substance is this:
Do you think people deserve what they get in life, or not?
According to the Vedic understanding, every event is precisely controlled by God or His agents in such a way that hapiness and distress are perfectly distributed according to our actions. There are many implications. I'm not sure how Christians feel about the issue, but in general it seems that people discriminate in favor of those with whom they sympathize, and against those with whom they do not. From a philosophical perspective, it seems a lot more reasonable that we should be more consistent on the issue, and find that even those who evoke our sympathy deserve their suffering, and our enemies deserve whatever happiness they enjoy. Otherwise, it would appear that the events of this world are not in the control of a just God.
Posted by: Pandu das | Thursday, June 16, 2005 at 09:49 AM
"Do you think people deserve what they get in life, or not?"
Should I continue to wait for an answer?
Posted by: Pandu das | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 09:17 AM
Pandu, in the context of this post, I think the answer is no.
Clearly.
Posted by: Rick | Monday, June 20, 2005 at 09:41 AM
My first impression was that you were saying you won't answer the question, but then it appeared that your response was the answer. My comment to the former was:
Then I would like to recommend that you get a consistent philosophy before you go labeling others with derogatory names.
I suggest looking here:
http://bhagavadgitaasitis.com/9/29/en
Hare Krsna
---
In the latter case:
So to justify your own sentimental response, you're willing to negatively characterize God? Astonishing!
In the beginning of Bhagavad-gita, Arjuna presented a mundane, sentimental philosophy to Krishna to justify his reluctance to fight in a civil war that the Lord had arranged. Their exchange in chapter 2 would be educational for you.
http://bhagavadgitaasitis.com/2/en
Hare Krsna.
Posted by: Pandu das | Tuesday, June 21, 2005 at 09:45 AM
Pandu,
What exactly are you getting at? Are you trying to convert me (or my readers) to Krishna Consciousness?
Save yourself some time. I'm not interested.
If you want to believe that we're merely robots in a world "precisely controlled by God" then feel free... God has apparently precisely controlled me to reject your philosophy (and he's apparently precisely controlled you to be precisely rejected by me which of course makes me wonder what precisely he's up to).
In any case, take this all up with Him or Her or whatever it is that Krishna Consciousness believes God to be... and know that he will precisely do what he precisely believes is the precise right thing to do about my precisely rejecting your precisely attempted maneuver to convert us to Hare Krishna...
But thanks for coming by, although I guess you really had no choice in the matter...
And I apparently had no choice in writing this...
Which again makes me wonder what our exchange is all about... I guess God's left hand is precisely conversing with his right... seems to me that this might make the Grand Puppeteer in the sky to be... somewhat... mad...
Posted by: Rick | Tuesday, June 21, 2005 at 02:42 PM
Yes, mad. Do you think God is some old man who sits like a judge, serious all the time? Well, you can't imagine His pastimes; you should just hear about them. His madness is described in numerous scriptural verses, in His own words and that of His confidential associates. (*a few examples below) Of course, it would be extreme foolishness to compare His madness to that of ordinary crazy people. He controls every atom without the slightest care or personal attention, except when reciprocating with His devotees (who also become mad due to His association). Your free will is limited to your ability to accept Him or deny Him. If you accept Him, you are under His personal control; and if you reject Him, you are strictly controlled by His illusory material potency.
The problem is that you are guessing about God based on an unauthorized, synthetic so-called scripture made by and for uncivilized society. The Bible was based on a slight memory of Vedic knowledge, and Jesus was certainly a Vaishnava, but none of the recently invented religions are able to lead anyone to God. The Bible has no true spiritual authority. Lacking bona fide knowledge, you know neither God's identity or His attributes; but guessing or speculating will not help. There is no way to find out about God apart from hearing about Him from His devotees.
Krishna is God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you deride Krishna consciousness, you're saying you don't care about God. That is your misfortune. Since you apparently value being 'brutally honest,' I'm simply telling you the truth for your benefit.
And no, I'm not trying to 'convert' you or anyone. Krishna consciousness is the original consciousness of every living entity, so 'convert' has no meaning in this context. It's more like I'm trying to wake you up.
...........
http://vedabase.net/cc/en1
Describing His tasting of His own holy names:
CC Ādi 7.78: "While chanting the holy name of the Lord in pure ecstasy, I lose myself, and thus I laugh, cry, dance and sing just like a madman.
CC Ādi 7.81: "'My dear lord, what kind of mantra have you given Me? I have become mad simply by chanting this mahā-mantra!"
CC Adi 9.52: With His sankirtana movement the Lord made everyone mad like Himself. We do not find anyone who was not intoxicated by His sankirtana movement.
CC Madhya 1.52: In the attitude of separation, Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu appeared mad both day and night. Sometimes He laughed, and sometimes He cried; sometimes He danced, and sometimes He chanted in great sorrow.
(Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krishna Himself, feeling the most extreme madness in a mood of separation from Himself...)
CC Antya 19.1: Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the most exalted of all devotees of mothers, spoke like a madman and rubbed His face against the walls. Overwhelmed by emotions of ecstatic love, He would sometimes enter the Jagannātha-vallabha garden to perform His pastimes. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Him.
CC Antya 19.3: In the ecstasy of love of Kṛṣṇa, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu thus behaved like a madman, talking insanely all day and night.
CC Antya 19.20: "Please inform Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is acting like a madman, that everyone here has become mad like Him. Inform Him also that in the marketplace rice is no longer in demand.
CC Antya 19.21: "Further tell Him that those now mad in ecstatic love are no longer interested in the material world. Also tell Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu that one who has also become a madman in ecstatic love [Advaita Prabhu] has spoken these words."
Posted by: Pandu das | Wednesday, June 22, 2005 at 11:39 AM
Illusory material potency eh? What in hell does that mean? And does it have anything to do with God having sex?
Pandu, in the context of this conversation, I'm about as awake as Ted Kennedy is sober, as Michael Jackson is something other than weird, as Dick Durbin is genuine. ZZZZZZZ....
Pandu, with all due respect and in all seriousness...
I think you'll have better luck in airports...
Posted by: Rick | Wednesday, June 22, 2005 at 08:24 PM
God's illusory material potency is the bewilderment that this world causes over the living spiritual souls, making us to believe that we are the material body and the things in relation to the body are ours and meant for our enjoyment. Actually our only real purpose is to engage everything in Krishna's service. With a little faith, the illusion is quickly dispelled by service to God, beginning with hearing about Him, finding out who He is and what are His desires.
God, the supreme enjoyer, has no desire for sex. That is a thing of this material world, entirely inferior to His standard. He compares it to a camel's taste for thorny bushes. The camel cuts his mouth on sharp thorns and thinks, "oh, this bush tastes so nice," but the taste is his own vitality escaping. The desire for sex is actually a weak and misplaced attempt to be the Lord, and is thus the root cause of illusion. God enjoys serving His devotees and serving Himself in variagated moods of union and separation from Himself.
Srila Prabhupada has spoken nicely about such service, "The transcendental devotional service is so ecstatic that even the Lord himself plays the part of a devotee, forgetting Himself to be the Supreme, He personally teaches the whole world how to render service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
Now, for myself, I find myself disqualified from making any spiritual advancement due to my many faults. So I am stuck. But when I see others make a little advancement in their spiritual lives, I feel such ecstasy that I can only cry. So what can I do but beg everyone to chant the Lord's holy names? When I hear some sincere soul taking the Lord's names on their tongue, developing love for Him, my life is fulfilled. So, please, it is fine if you think me a fool, but all I ask is that you and everyone make a nice, sincere attempt to please God by chanting His holy names. When you do, your heart will begin melting and you will become mad with transcendental ecstasy, almost like the Lord, and I will be indebted to you for it. Hare Krishna.
Your servant,
Pandu das
Posted by: Pandu das | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 12:59 PM
Pandu,
There is no one more flawed than me. There is no one who wants more than anything else for others to find God and be pleased, content, fulfilled. There is no one more aware, especially of late, that as my faith in some things shrink, my desire and longing for God increases.
And yet there is no one in whom I will believe more than the person of Jesus Christ. Tis true that my most recent experiences have been devoid of what has been traditionally believed to be those lived by someone who purports to be a strong believer. And perhaps this is something of my own doing. Or perhaps it is God testing me or worse yet, Satan being allowed to mess with me. I don't honestly know.
But I do believe that Jesus Christ walked this earth, sent by the Father, lived and then died and then rose again to give hope to flawed people like me. And flawed people like you.
You say that you have been "disqualified from making any spiritual advancement due to my many faults".
That Pandu is the exact mindset Jesus came to obliterate. A mindset that sez you're not good enough, you're too flawed, others are better than you, you'll never advance spiritually. All of that is bullshit Pandu.
You're a child of God made for a particular purpose and I believe firmly that the God you chase is the only God found in Jesus Christ.
He's the God who's perfection covers all flaws. He's the God who advanced spiritually to the pinnacle of God the Father's right hand and who stands before Him pleading our case (and the case of all flawed people who genuinely long for Him)... and hey Pandu, He'll never lose a case, in fact, He's already won it.
There was a time when I'd try to argue you into His presence. I no longer do that. Perhaps I ought. But I'm more comfortable telling you this.
I wish you peace man. I genuinely and honestly do. And if there's a way we could swing it, I'd want to share a beer with you and get to know more about you (and your flaws) and who you are and what makes you tick.
And maybe we'd argue politics or religion or this or that but I also hope that in the end we'd simply say something like... whatever... and we'd part in peace.
And then I'd probably be praying for you (and all us flawed folks) all the more...
Posted by: Rick | Thursday, June 23, 2005 at 03:23 PM